Recently Mail Today asked me to write an anecdotal article for them. It got published on 31st Jan’10 (best viewed in IE). Here’s the unedited version of the article (which has one anecdote extra). Awaiting bouquets/brickbats in comments. 🙂
It’s a Woe-Man’s world
“Some husbands are living proof that a woman can take a joke”. How else does one explain the umpteen number of smart, intelligent, independent women getting married to chauvinists & changing their entire outlook for that mandatory milestone in life that we call “marriage”? They believe they need to either do that, or get slotted into the “failure” category. I see some of them living double lives – one when they are outside the home and one when they are under scrutiny of their in-laws.
Gone are the days when the typical matrimony setup had the boy’s family visiting the girl’s with the girl coyly handing out tea & demonstrating her obligatory culinary/sewing/singing/knitting (take your pick) skills. Cut to the present – now families meet in public places a.k.a. crowded cafes where the ‘boy’ & the ‘girl’ are given some time alone after both parties size each other in noisy environs & wonder who’ll foot the bill. Most such meetings end up poorly (literally) since there’s hardly any interaction before the two parties meet, no picture exchange, the only conversations on phone being limited to the “elders”. The entire premise is based on the concept of suitable “bio data” where almost everyone writes things like “hobbies – listening to music” and at most horoscope matching. The ‘boy’ & ‘girl’ in question usually squirm under the scrutiny of the opposite party, utter obligatory nonsense and return back with the real picture getting clearer much later with a phone call. One figures that the only “type” one would meet under these circumstances are “mama’s boys”.
A better method still, some “boys” & “girls” and sometimes even entire families, hang around on matrimonial websites a.k.a. glorified dating sites (& other unmentionable terms in a family newspaper). The goal for at least some of us, is to meet educated, employed, decent AND available men (the last being a very important attribute since most available men lack the first three qualities). But the assumption that one would meet such men beyond the realm of their mother’s pallus, shatters soon enough with the kind of experiences one faces on such sites.
Take for instance the typical “orkut fraandsheep request” type users who flock the site, spamming anyone with a profile, after all it takes only a click. Or the freeloaders with a daily income less than the cost of a peanut butter jar, who can’t write to save their life. I’ve been contacted by men between the ages of 21-62, with professions as varied as “Sweeper” to “Zamindar”, marital status ranging from divorcee-with-2-kids to got-married-a-month-back-now-separated. Some weirdos give reasons like “I’ve no problem with the age difference of just 6 months but my parents want an age difference of at least 3 years” as if its the parents who were going to wed me. Some (including the weirdo category) forget having been written off via a previous profile of theirs & reconnect anyway, when they create a new profile all over again. The online world does give freedom of expression but seemingly the parental pallu extends here too at times! Right from being called up early one morning by an NRI who was ensuring that I was female, thanks to a bad experience with a gay masquerading as a girl on a matrimonial site, to hearing about how one “profile user” stole another’s credit card when they met, to people plagiarizing someone elses pictures & passing them off as their own forgetting that SOME day they’ll meet people they contact, to the people one rejects stalking one on ones social networking profiles – I’ve seen it all!
But don’t take me to be “choosy” just yet. I went through the matrimonial process for many years, putting in my entire free time into the search & approached it very methodically. Taking a cue from another “organised user”, to make sense of the information overload, I maintained excel sheets for the various people I contacted & those who contacted me. The sheet got updated daily with the meticulousness & dedication I would assign only to my finances. Talking of finances, I might as well add, working in the IT industry for several years put me in a decent salary bracket & allowed me to possess my own car and house. With time, I moved out of my parents place and started living independently in the aforementioned house & swooshed around the city in the aforementioned car. Now that is considered a very bad move as far as the marriage market is concerned. I instantly got typecasted into the “fiercely independent” category and I could imagine the rejection thought process of the parents of prospective grooms – “live in boyfriends”, “can’t adjust into family”, you get the picture. Having a head between my shoulders, that actually does think & opine, does not help matters either. With time, taking cue from some online matrimonial profiles which stated clearly that they were looking for people earning as much or above their salary level, I added something to that effect in my profile as well. As expected I received mixed results. Some people could identify with it, whereas a lot of others contacted me on the sites only to harass me for the “attitude”. One guy wrote “You have such proud (sic), just coz u have lakshmi ki kripa.” That response was just begging for a reply & got it. I wrote “Yes, I am blessed with Lakshmi ki kripa, but you aren’t even blessed with Saraswati ki kripa — you can’t even write properly!”. Another user with misplaced patriotism contacted me just to tell me “You Pakis! Just go back to your country!” because my profile stated that my grandparents had migrated during partition from what is now Pakistan!
Even the traditional methods like matrimonial ads in newspapers or getting details of eligible matches through family friends & relatives yield similar results. In one particular instance the family seemed great, the “boy” seemed charming & possessed the four above mentioned attributes. Everything seemed just picture perfect. The family wanted to meet me & my parents at their place. Eventually we met & they instantly adopted me as their would-be daughter-in-law. The “boy’s” mom couldn’t stop fawning over me and kept gushing about something or the other. So much sudden love completely freaked me out. But it all fell into place when the hyperexcited mom of the boy in question took me aside & gave me a short lecture about how men are always careless, fickle minded, naughty and give in to temptations and how it was up to “us women”, the honourable creatures who could hold fort in such situations. Later the “boy” confessed to having been caught by his parents in a compromising position with a, well … friend. Ekta Kapoor’s serials had not started then, else the gushing mother in law, would have been quite the perfect caricature!
Even if one ignores the rotten apples, it’s a fact that most men in the marriage market have their expectations arising from the typical image of a wife who is “gharelu”, submissive, doesn’t talk back and “obeys”, perhaps created by the way we are brought up. Didn’t some elders say, TV is the root cause of all evil? It certainly rings true in this context.
Is it a crime if a woman is more successful or smarter than her better half? Well most men take that as a sign of their own failure. Some of my classmates from engineering, well educated people with good family backgrounds, actually wanted a wife who would NOT work after marriage! Strangely they never had a problem dating their own ambitious classmates from college but when it comes to the “wife search” it’s perhaps more about the apprehensions of these men than about the attributes of the women they look for! Surprisingly having a sister who also aspires to be independent doesn’t make any difference when the search for another female family member commences. The hypocrisy continues. I have observed that parents who believe in stereotypes mostly impose them on their progeny too. Someone who has the freedom to make his/her own choices is the kind of person who would also respect his better half’s choices & not get intimidated by them. The search for that kind of someone is still on, but till the time, the elusive groom who fits required attributes and does NOT get intimidated by me, comes, I go by what Carrie Bradshaw says “Why get married and make one man miserable when I can stay single and make thousands miserable?”
I couldn’t agree more on the glorified dating part.
90% of the profiles have low key grammar, most aren’t written by the prospect, but parents and cousins. Those who come out as smart and educated, look for greener pastures, and/or same community marriage.
Else most are into dating, and wont reply to a profile that looks like coming for a matrimony proposition.
I think only a fool would consider not marrying a woman more smarter than him, provided she’s also not an egoistic, overly proud person.
Like you, I too have given up. But I am yet to buy that house and that car. Yet to roam the mumbai streets at night, my bike suffices.
best wishes..
you have given up? I thought men (assuming thakkar is a male) always had much more choice! They can always contact younger women – age no bar 🙂
Agree with you completely. Having an opinion is considered terrible and more so if you go around quoting Rumi and Gibran all through the conversation.
Its amazing how men are willing to give up relationships over 8 years long, just because their parents’ prestige comes into picture.
Sacrifice for ma and pitaji is the new trend. Some gumption and the basic need to have a personal opinion is lacking.
For a cousin who is Ivy educated, the rejection was about over qualification and domination. She is happy to be married to her work today 🙂
Age no bar? there’s definitely a bar.
If I may borrow from HIMYM, a male is considered socially ok when he tries to date a woman of age ((N/2)+5), where N is his age.
When one is turning 29, one is not looking for those models in Levi’s Jeans stores, one is looking for a person he’s comfortable talking to, can connect on an intellectual and emotional level, can sort things out after talking them over, and that, is hard to do with someone much younger.
My couple of earlier crushes have always been near my age or older, at 6’4″, I tower above all.
@RGC, (I’m assuming Rehab), Rumi and Gibran is still ok to handle, I talk Dragons and Starships, My offer of Coffee still stands 🙂
Ha! So true about “Surprisingly having a sister who also aspires to be independent doesn’t make any difference when the search for another female family member commences.” When my cousin, who is a couple of years older to us was looking for a ‘match’, he expressed a desire to not see any girls who are in another state/country/away from parents because psst psst they have loose morals. ANd guess what, 5 of us girls in our family(all his mom’s sisters’ daughters) are staying/have stayd away from their parents on their own before they got married, so I guess he thinks we have loose morals!
whoa.. thakkar is my blogpost becoming an online dating portal? :p
Shilpa, What does one do about double standards in ones own family. sigh..
Hehe… No, Its not becoming a dating portal, if RGC is indeed Rehab from Twitter, we’ve met offline first 🙂 She’s one of those who loves intense discussions on various things, and I value that quality immensely.
Shilpa So sorry to hear that. I’ve seen countless families where the Male has a higher curfew limit to return home, and the girl child has a curfew even on education. I recently was in talks with a prospect who’s dad feigned illness so she would leave her pHD and come back to take care of him. He told her only after a Sem drop happened that this was a ruse, else she would not have come.
Stories like these make me thank the powers that be daily to have given me what all I have today.
>>Its amazing how men are willing to give up
>>relationships over 8 years long, just because their
>>parents’ prestige comes into picture.
sorry, thats a biased statement…have experienced the other way so its human, not just wo/man 🙂
I think it is a matter of expectations..if those are too high you would never find a partner… guys are not going to find a girl with looks of Aisharya Rai,brains of Chanda Kochar who would sit at home and raise their kids…girls are not going to find tall,dark, handsome, sensitive, well read , funny with a high fi pay packet? Have reasonable expectations and you would find love….
Ruchik – now that’s just an assumption that I (or others in their search) have their expectations too high.
I in fact went out of my way and set my expectations too low (esp given the intimidation factor). That whole attempt landed on its face and I swore never again to compromise on certain very very basic requirements – the absence of which would ensure that I would never respect my better half.
Kiran Agree with you on that, At times I want to scream, hey, I’m marrying your daughter and she’s marrying me, We arent marrying each other’s families 😀
The extended family is a gift, not a burden
Ruchik I dont think love is an expectations game at all, high or low. If you expect things, there’ll always be trouble sooner or later.
The first time I put elaborate expectations in the advanced search, the output was zero, in agreement with your theory.
Most times the people you have a crush on, are just not into me. Having tried to woo someone n times, one would always hurt if they have expectations. If you say “I did this so they should do this”, that’s not how its played. They have a right to say No even if you can steal stars from the sky and find pearls from the bottom of Pacific ocean.
Relationships are not just about give and take, its finding comfort level with a person where you start feeling what their needs are, and accommodate them, those which you dont agree with, can be discussed out rationally between two adults.
Our TV serials are full of plots where the Saas says A, Bahu says B and the Husband has to pick in between. Thankfully with the nuclear families concept, such situations are arising less and less, but even when they do arise, cant the Husband and Wife, or the Wife and in law, or the Mom and son talk it out?
TwilightFairy Apologies if you think I am trolling the thread, its very pertinent to ongoing personal life at moment, so I’m responding actively 🙂
Thakkar – no prob. m waiting for u to find ur love on this very blogpost’s comments section (and then i’ll charge my fees for matchmaking :P) 🙂
Nice post.. At times it does look like “male bashing” but I suppose one should expect it in anecdotal piece. Most women I met also indulge in pretty much the same stuff the men do (essentially “submitting willingly” to the will of the parents/extended family).
For starters, superbly written. I could empathise with every bit of what you said, barring the gender of course 🙂
But on a positive note, there is an increasing acceptance of the confident young woman of today. There is no running away from this fact :)And I would presume forward looking men would have to accept this fact (maybe cringingly at times) and move on.
Look at it this way. If marriage were to be considered a “team” of 2 partners, there would be more of give and take, and less of ego clashes. Easier said than done I know. But it can be much better than the gharelu setups. Provided the guy too is agreeable!
My search fortunately is over 🙂
Suffering Socrates said:
“My search fortunately is over :)”
hence the suffering 🙂
More power to you!! 🙂
Very well written, and I couldn’t agree more. As a so-called ‘eligible girl’ I have men of all kinds flung at my head every day. What I really do not understand is why my insisting on a particular kind of normal joe is taken as a sign of mulish obstinacy, while the same thing from a guy doesn’t even raise an eyebrow.
I’m an only child who lived away from home for nearly half a decade for my studies and work. As a result, I’m assumed to be a spoiled, home-wrecking harpy who led a wanton life….yeah, don’t I wish!! ;P
The only relief is that my parents are with me on this….can’t say that for many of my friends.
Rest assured that there are guys out there who appreciate education and assertiveness in a woman. Thanks for sharing your story — the more people who speak up, the more people will step up.
My FIL believes women shouldn’t work as “we’re well off” (ha!) and men will not get jobs if women work. He claims men, even if well off, have to work, because it’s DHARMA. But he didn’t mind getting his son (my husband) married to me – pedigree and wealth. If he was really principled, he should have said no because my mom and I are working women.
Of course, none of this applies to the wealth the woman brings along – he uses his wife’s income from her lands. (And so do most others who don’t want working wives, etc.) And he’s quite keen to know how much I’ve earned/accumulated – also quite proud to show me off as a DIL in a big company with a high-profile job. It’s nothing to do with my merit, but that he thinks he is worth more for having snagged such an alliance!
Thanks Zahra – I have managed to somehow “train” my parents.. though somewhere they are still very concerned about “log kya kahenge”
Thanks for the visit Dave – m on the lookout for such (single) men 🙂 ..
Lakshmi – can relate to the hypocrisy. Two of my friends from college (different religion) were seeing each other. Things were all cool but when it came to marriage, the guy’s father threatened suicide! Everything they tried proved futile. Ultimately they had to break a relationship of many years because apparently the couple was making someone else more happy, who in turn had no probs initially but when it comes to “permanency” in relationships, the equations change.
Lakshmi – Agree with you. “We’re well off” has got nothing to do with whether someone wants to work or not. From the 90’s Bollywood, there are countless movies on the concept of “Ghar Jamai” and “Adarsh Bahu”, which are hard stereotypes to which our Father’s generation has a strong opinion on.
Gender’s aside, if anyone has spent a lifetime getting an education, or developing a skill, and wants to use it, who’s the partner to stop it. If they dont want to pursue any job, who’s the partner to demand it.
If there are genuine concerns/problems in the family, they can mutually decide and sort it out. If the commitments to raising a family are satisfied, I think marriage is a 50% partnership.
Equal Rights, Equal responsibilities.
TwilightFairy Any tips on training, I need to get mine off my back 🙂 (29 saal ka ho gaya hain, 30 cross kiya to koi apni ladki bhi nahin dega – mah sweet granny)
Thakkar – tips on what?! Had I any gyaan to impart, I wouldnt be writing such anecdotes :p.. but all I can say is (which is valid for any relationship for that matter) give freedom and respect. All restrictions one would want to impose should be valid for oneself too.
Tips for training parents re 😛
Thakkar – oh.. basically reiterate what I already told u :p .. everything expected of me is valid for them too. In their zamana they never had all this horoscope matching and stuff.. now suddenly its the rage. Refusal to comply with the dhakiyanoosi taur tareeke helps :p I told them clearly that I would meet guys on my own terms. The yes or no is upto me and will NOT be dictated by which relative referred the family etc.
BTW they really liked my article in Mail Today 🙂
TF
Like our 1st loves, which leave us heartbroken, our parents also love us with expectations. When they refer the 1st prospect they decide is ideal, and it gets rejected, they are heart broken.
In long term, after hearing the “You’re nice guys, but lets just be friends in this matter” speech they get satisfied that we are part of their lives and accept us on our terms.
Somehow this sounds familier. 🙂
yeah i agree on all you have written.It reminded me of instances that turned me off like “An advocate girl expected to leave the job for marriage”,or the 2 facets most indian married girls do liveI even d add all the fuss on changing a girl’s name after she gets married.Just call a man by some other name for a few mins n he gets irritated..be it the kinda attire or the way we speak or anything that can be changed in us,they want that.Hell its better to stay single forever!!;)
oh i hope u have figured out i am a girl..huh:)
I can see a lot of frustration in your blog.but not all men expect a wife who is less smarter or makes less money than him. I have atleast 3 of my friends where the lady makes more money and more educated.About dating a woman who is elder than the guy part,once India is free of taboos, thats when it will be solved :).Well, dont give up, coz there are still a log of good ones in my species.btw thanks for the views ladies,I will try to delete my “online matri” profile 🙂
Ms. Fairy, i feel, the number of eligible boys for today’s employed, intelligent, confident girls is far far less than the requirement.
Most of the girls have to adjust with the available stuff.
Moreover, boys are being educated & trained to become obedient, hardworking employee of a MNC, unlike earlier generation people, whose priority was to acquire knoledge for their livelyhood & lead a good life with his lady he love.
Wow, tht ws some article !! Nice way of putting things in perspective…:)
Felt extreme urge to present the other side of the story.. Have been going through the same process and sites for last 6 – 8 months. And for me its always the same story: the gud ones are taken; whatever left of them wont even think of looking at anything remotely below their (extremely high) expectation, and those interested are not remotely near my criteria.
Slowly coming to believe that a gud partner is almost as difficult as finding a bungalow in Antarctica. Well to suite my objective I have specifically presented my earning to be less than what it is (to eradicate the gold diggers) and presented the crazier side of myself (being a marketing professional wanted to promote the self that I want to be prominent in future) – and … lesser and lesser females responding.
Amazing I thot virginity is a criteria males fuss upon, yet most unmarried females (even if in their late 30’s) aspire to mary unmarried males only!
Any thot on these?
I can so relate myself with it..the only sad part is that I gave in and now feel miserable ..I feel so jealous of my unmarried friends and at the same time feel pity on the ones wanting to get married ..wish I could turn back time… I love what bradshaw said ..stay single stay happy..
Nice post..seems you’re expecting too much from am men which is not possible in todays world..so try to have some less expectations and have a happy family life..:)
Kiran – am wondering how u reached any conclusion about what I am expecting when I havent even written about it anywhere!
In fact I have tried compromising and it turned out to be a disaster. I figure its better to stay unmarried than compromise about some very very basic stuff. If I can not respect the guy, there’s no point in being married to him.
You are absolutely correct, Ms. Twilight Fairy. Marriage is not a business in which compromise or negotiations are possible. If a girl or a boy cannot accept the other, marriage is not possible. Things get worse when compromise occurs. It’s better not to happen marriage than compromise.
Nice article Twilight. Reminds me of my search for a partner via similar channels. It took all of 3 years but I must say it was worth the effort and the wait. I am glad that I didn’t compromise on core/basic things.
I still remember getting a one hour sermon from a girl I’d met through a matrimonial site. She had the impression that I was aiming too high and I should start drastically lower my expectations. Well, if I’d let go of my core/basic expectations then it would’ve been better not to marry at all.
I’d also like to add that I agree with @Horus/Indrajit – most of the good ones are taken. It’s difficult finding the right resonance.
Excellent write up. I actually started a blog sometime back just on this issue but sadly gave it up because of time crunch (shameless plus http://shubhmangalsavdhan.blogspot.com/). At times, the phrase “Truth is stranger than fiction” befits my experiences to the last t. I have given up expecting decent behavior from most of the men. Though they may believe in equality, graduated from some of the elite schools of the world, want an educated bride etc, their actual behavior makes me want to start a class on basic manners and etiquette.
I so relate to the sometimes funny, sometimes horrendous but mostly irritating frogs (with their families) one has to meet to find someone who doesn’t feel like life handed you a big compromise.I totally agree with you on the ‘No compromise’ on traits that define if you respect a person or not.
Thumbs up for your attitude girl 🙂 I hope and pray that marriage or no marriage you don’t have to give up on your core beliefs 🙂 and your independence.
Cheers,
KR
Hard to disagree, especially with the anecdotes sprinkled across the post (and comments too). Wouldn’t it be smarter to build a matrimonial site or equivalent forum that borrows from the aforementioned collective experiences?
Just wondering.
Meanwhile wish you the best in finding a suitable suitor, non-repulsive in all said categories.
There’s an article in The Hindu abt matrimonial background investigation services, which was simply begging to be forwarded.
http://beta.thehindu.com/life-and-style/article257072.ece?homepage=true
Great post, Twilight. Came here through Rashmi’s blog. Since I have been through the same process for the past 2 years, I can say most of what you have written is true. I can probably write an entire book on this topic. If you think the situation is any better for us guys, I can assure you thats not the case. Below is a brief sample of what I have encountered so far –
1) The Photoshopped beauties – girls who appear to be the epitome of feminine beauty in their profile but in real life are more hairy than Anil Kapoor (just kidding), though the girl in question did have really prominent whiskers 😉
2) The Visa hunters – Girls who are actually hunting for a US visa, the husband is incidental.
3) The traditional family types – Parents who stone-wall all attempts to even talk with the girl directly. (Hamare yahan yeh sab nahin hota hai) And the girl in question was a Sales Manager who interacts regularly with hundreds of people in her line of work. So she is allowed to talk to everyone except her prospective husband.
How I wish I could write a follow-up to your article giving the male perspective, if nothing else just to restore the balance 🙂
Oh Fairy, you scare me 🙂
I turned 25 a few months back, and my parents are getting all geared up to find a girl. And I’m getting geared up to deal with rejection.
This is worse than the time I had to face campus placement interviews!
This post being over a month old, I’d really like to know if there’re any updates.
Cheers,
Chaitanya.
Thanks nic. Oh I know guys would have somewhat similar experiences.. after all there are cheats all around. But even then, their experiences would not be half as shocking as what women come across (or at least what I have come across) 🙂
Chaitanya – the post may be a month old but the experiences are years old :). I am not active on any matrimonial sites now. There are no updates on my end either.
But don’t get so nervous about the process! I remember the first time I had to meet a guy like this, I had the same thoughts (about it being worse than job interviews)..but then one just plunges into it, sees the hilarity of it all and goes along with the flow. One thing that I had made sure before meeting “arranged matches” was to meet guys only on the condition that my parents would not try to influence my decision. If I said no, it would mean no irrespective of whatever good or bad points the guy or his family may have. Make sure you have the freedom to say no! I know far too many cases of people who succumb to pressure and later repent for the rest of their lives.
I am happy that somebody really did share the kind of experience you face on social networking sites and on matrimonial sites.
Why gender bias ? This holds true for both the genders.
Ha…tell me about it.
“One wife divorced, two children divorced”, and the cad wanted a virgin wife who would quit her job and look after his mother.
Men!!!! I wish I swung the other way sometimes……
http://amapuna.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/kissing-toads/
the travails of a single man are no worse. atleast one who seeks to shun the arranged marriage route. atleast in india it begins with, where do we meet single women 🙂
unfortunately i am not as talented as you, neither do i possess such observational skills… else there is a story there…
Interesting post. More than the woes an independent woman has to face in the matrimony battle, the internet product manager in me found it to be a great customer feedback for these matrimony sites. Considering the new confident and independent generation of people like you; and the archaic systems Indian society follows when it comes to marriage, this becomes a million dollar opportunity for entrepreneurs. SimplyMarry.com, coupl.in are the niche sites in this area, and I guess this post makes a perfect insight for these guys on what is the exact problem that they should be solving 🙂
Interesting article – despite the detailed profile it is sometimes impossible to figure out the attitude of the guys.What kind of questions do you think can bring out the ‘mama’s boy’ out of the closet 😉
May be we will add such Qs on coupl.in